Spring meet 2010

[advanwrx]

Originally Posted by Drift-it

if you guys do get Lot 1, and are interested, ive got some stunters who wouldnt mind puttin a show or two on during the day. yall know how to get at me if you want more info.

Pretty cool idea (and I'd def love to watch it) but there are legal issues written all over it if someone got hurt that CPT might not be able to deal with

[advanwrx]

Originally Posted by advanwrx

If you had rolling admission from 9am - 12pm it'd clog less

But then people getting there at 9am wouldn't stay all afternoon

...but then again with 5,000 cars coming maybe we don't want people staying all afternoon ––*and it would make it overall less crowded with staggered admission times

pro's and con's to everything

Originally Posted by 86928N96Explorer

^^^ especially important if you dont get lot 1

Quoted for page 2

I'm starting to think that staggering the morning admission would make it less crowded

Because not everyone would want to show up at 9AM (sooo early) so ppl would trickle in throughout 9am-2pm ish... But on the flipside, everyone will show up all at once at 12noon if that's the earliest time

This isn't the same meet we had 2 years ago for sure... gotta adapt to changing circumstances


Downside to staggered admissions -- ppl that show up in morning and leave won't get to see the afternoon cars. BUT the meet is soooo damn big I think it's impossible to see every car there WHILE you are there anyway

[86928N96Explorer]

Originally Posted by advanwrx

Pretty cool idea (and I'd def love to watch it) but there are legal issues written all over it if someone got hurt that CPT might not be able to deal with

or if someone's car got hurt...

[sunburn]

Get lot 1. Why are you guys making up all kinds of excuses for this? We couldn't get it in the past, it's too late to get approval, blah blah. It needs to be done if you want to keep this meet at the size it was the last two years. Every single person that didn't get to park in the main lot is going to complain this year and that will hurt attendance or make the traffic earlier in the day even worse. Lot 1 and all the surrounding lots are connected, which means people can park all the way down by UMUC, by byrd stadium, or by Tawes hall and and still be part of the meet. If people are parking in the back lot of Comcast because we ran out of space, nobody is going to see their car and they won't be part of the big group.

Like everyone has already said, you have to adapt to new circumstances. This meet got bigger than any of us could have imagined, but it's freakin awesome that it did. Don't ruin it by limiting space because you guys didn't feel like working a bit to get a much bigger lot.

Originally Posted by advanwrx

Downside to staggered admissions -- ppl that show up in morning and leave won't get to see the afternoon cars. BUT the meet is soooo damn big I think it's impossible to see every car there WHILE you are there anyway

We shouldn't worry about this stuff. There are plenty of nice cars there throughout the day for people to look at. If they want to see ALL the cars, they can show up when it starts and leave at 5pm. If not, who cares? I think opening earlier is fine. Start letting people in at 10am because lots of groups were starting to come that early anyway. Everyone wants a good spot.

Oh, and we need to keep tough on all the rules we've set in the past. No saving spots, no tents, no private grilles, etc. Parking is too limited for people to be taking up spots with chairs and all that crap. If you want to sit down, there is plenty of grassy area around the parking lots. Lot 1 will be even better for this because there will be trees for shade and plenty of grassy curb areas that people can chill out on.

[Driverman5777]

I think its hillarious how before this year if we ever brought it up you guys said dont even try there is no point... now that we have reached the same conclusion you all had you now decide to argue with us... which is really what everything on this forum is about. We are having enough issues with the police force because of the amount of complaints filed last year by residents. The meet will be in lot 9/11. stop arguing

Also... it would be stupid for us to even more blatantly go against university rules and start the meet before we have in the past. Music and loud noises are not allowed till noon. If we want this show to continue in the future we need to adhere to the rules which the university gives us.

[Jonshungry]

I've got a few walkie-talkies by the way, if you guys need them.

[madDOC]

Originally Posted by Driverman5777

I think its hillarious how before this year if we ever brought it up you guys said dont even try there is no point... now that we have reached the same conclusion you all had you now decide to argue with us... which is really what everything on this forum is about. We are having enough issues with the police force because of the amount of complaints filed last year by residents. The meet will be in lot 9/11. stop arguing

Logan, Arguing? No. Stating valid points, yes. You have much more leverage this year than ANY other year. You have compounded growth in both attendance and donation.

Complaints filed by residents....College Park residents or UMD residents?

Lot 1 would make those residents quiet down... Lot 1 doesn't have any housing near it for at least 1/2 a mile.

[Driverman5777]

people all along metzerot, obviously not our concern nor our fault... However blame still falls onto our shoulders because they cannot blame anyone else. Also the police have told campus reservations that they believe the meet is getting too large for us to handle as a club, making a point with them that we need lot one for the same reasons they believe we cannot handle the meet anymore could potentially be shooting ourselves in the foot. On the form to campus reservations we say we expect attendance of 500... lot 9 and 11 are plenty big for that. If we were to lobby for lot 1 we would have to estimate at least 3000 for any chance of holding up the argument, and I do not believe they will go for a 6 fold increase in attendance. I understand every point made for lot 1... but as I said we'd have to back up the requirement for the size increase... there is no way they would ever tow the cars out of lot 1, so we would have rando cars in lot 1 that we could not move, and traffic, despite what you all believe would be a complete cluster fuck with lost people. All of college park would be at a standstill. If we have the meet take up that much of campus it is very likely that it will not be allowed to happen in the future

[CAJ]

I think one option that needs to be considered is to have a central collection point for donations. This would ease the flow of traffic considerably, although we'd be relying upon the integrity of the attendees to drop off their donations. For the most part, I think everyone will not mind donating with this method, if it means they don't have to sit in their cars for an hour or two. Additionally, we can have someone collecting additional donations at the food tent.

We could still have members (or whatever Greek organization) directing traffic, but the sooner we get everyone off the connecting roads, the better for all. Lines have been the biggest complaint, so anything we can do to mitigate will be appreciated by all. Just have the traffic coordinators direct people to where the food/donations tent is. Also, any CPT members who happen to see people carrying around food donations can do the same.

Also, I'm working on getting an additional grill and supplier for the food station.

[sunburn]

Noise complaints: Don't let the DJ start until noon, that's easy enough. Also, tell him to turn that shit down. It was painful walking within 30 yards of the speakers in the past. Everyone would be able to hear it easily at half that volume. Do people complain about the noise from football games?

I guess there is nothing else I can say. You've got offers from Keith and Crimmins (a damn law student) to help you talk to the power at be, but you've denied both. I'll stay out of it now and just see what happens when the day comes.

[86928N96Explorer]

Originally Posted by Driverman5777

people all along metzerot, obviously not our concern nor our fault... However blame still falls onto our shoulders because they cannot blame anyone else. Also the police have told campus reservations that they believe the meet is getting too large for us to handle as a club, making a point with them that we need lot one for the same reasons they believe we cannot handle the meet anymore could potentially be shooting ourselves in the foot. On the form to campus reservations we say we expect attendance of 500... lot 9 and 11 are plenty big for that. If we were to lobby for lot 1 we would have to estimate at least 3000 for any chance of holding up the argument, and I do not believe they will go for a 6 fold increase in attendance. I understand every point made for lot 1... but as I said we'd have to back up the requirement for the size increase... there is no way they would ever tow the cars out of lot 1, so we would have rando cars in lot 1 that we could not move, and traffic, despite what you all believe would be a complete cluster fuck with lost people. All of college park would be at a standstill. If we have the meet take up that much of campus it is very likely that it will not be allowed to happen in the future

- why do you report that attendance #?
- rando cars in lot 1 would be a negligible loss in size from total gained space
- having actually worked to plan routes for shuttle, i have a fairly strong understanding of traffic flow, and i can't see what you're saying with lost people. how would lot 1 somehow end up being worse than 9/11? the only argument that can be made *against* lot 1 with overall flow is that you could presumably have more entrances/exits. that double-edged sword could both increase complexity and increase I/O flow for the lots, but you have the option of blocking exits/entrances to reduce complexity, if you'd like. with 9/11, you have no option for increasing I/O flow.

you all should really concentrate on taking the time to sit down and think out what your real event coordination constraints are and then putting those problems in front of the administration and saying "this is what we've determined we'll need to facilitate proper execution of our goals". if you simply go in front of anyone (allen, mote, whoever) and say "we want lot 1 cuz it's bigger and we have more people", you're not going to be taken as seriously (and hopefully you'd have keith or crimmins to help you guys anyway)... and if you sit here and just argue with the people who originally planned the event and helped make it a reality (and still invest their valuable time in continuing to make it successful), you're not going to get much respect from most people in the club either.

[96850_R]

Basically the things that keep getting brought up are the traffic heat and lines. Traffic wouldn't decrease moving to lot 1. For the heat how about we make/ get one of those mister things they use at the zoo or other parks. People are not going to walk around to hand in donations. If you want to change it then send some members around with a shopping cart. Maybe a way to keep people honest is just stamp hands and require one can a person instead of per car.

[86928N96Explorer]

Originally Posted by 96850_R

Traffic wouldn't decrease moving to lot 1.
People are not going to walk around to hand in donations. If you want to change it then send some members around with a shopping cart.

- Traffic would very possibly decrease significantly moving to Lot 1 as it has more and larger artery roads servicing campus entrances surrounding it, it has more potential entrances, and the flow of traffic from 495 to Lot 1 could involve fewer left-turning entrances (light-induced clog points). Ever notice on basketball nights how the police barricade off the entrance/intersection to campus turning left in from 193 to comcast? there's a reason for that.
- The shopping cart thing is what we did last year, essentially.

[advanwrx]

The meet used to have like 2,000 cars, Now the meet has 5,000 cars... gotta do something

Originally Posted by Driverman5777

I think its hillarious how before this year if we ever brought it up you guys said dont even try there is no point...

See above.

now that we have reached the same conclusion you all had you now decide to argue with us...

stop arguing

Who's "we" and "us." Team Logan? Nobody's arguing it's the same friendly club debate we have on stuff every year since 2006 when we actually did it in person. And before you answer that question I know what you meant -- the current officers. The attitude of your post (at least this 1) really irks me because the alums on here are REALLY taking time out of their day to help out.

it would be stupid for us to even more blatantly go against university rules and start the meet before we have in the past. Music and loud noises are not allowed till noon. If we want this show to continue in the future we need to adhere to the rules which the university gives us.

Do you realize that most of us probably didn't know that? "Lemme just pull out my University handbook" Nobody suggested breaking any rules. If we can't let people in earlier because it's against the rules, then we can't let anyone in earlier.

Which brings us back to the question of 5,000 cars are coming all at once at 12PM... we need a solution

[96850_R]

Originally Posted by 86928N96Explorer

- Traffic would very possibly decrease significantly moving to Lot 1 as it has more and larger artery roads servicing campus entrances surrounding it, it has more potential entrances, and the flow of traffic from 495 to Lot 1 could involve fewer left-turning entrances (light-induced clog points). Ever notice on basketball nights how the police barricade off the entrance/intersection to campus turning left in from 193 to comcast? there's a reason for that.
- The shopping cart thing is what we did last year, essentially.

Lot 1 has 3 main entrances. Campus drive from adelphi, campus drive from route 1 and from 193 through the Preforming Arts Center. If we did that we essential block off every road into campus. I can see that being a huge saftey issue. Not to mention if we already have noise complaints what will traffic going right by the denton community do? Adelphi already backs up on saturday, rush hour, ect add an extra thousand cars your asking for trouble.

Right now lots 11/9 have two quick ways to enter and exit campus. Lot 1 has 1 maybe two as well. I'd love to get lot 1 but i see traffic becoming worse if we did that.

[86928N96Explorer]

Originally Posted by 96850_R

Lot 1 has 3 main entrances. Campus drive from adelphi, campus drive from route 1 and from 193 through the Preforming Arts Center. If we did that we essential block off every road into campus. I can see that being a huge saftey issue. Not to mention if we already have noise complaints what will traffic going right by the denton community do? Adelphi already backs up on saturday, rush hour, ect add an extra thousand cars your asking for trouble.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...09774&t=h&z=17
Lot 1 has 3 entrances from adelphi/193&campus dr (cirlce, turn before the circle, and pres drive from campus drive), it has stadium dr past denton, and it has campus dr from rt 1. Also, the huge effect that lot 1 will have on traffic is the way that major roads service it. 9/11 are closest in proximity to rt 1 and metzerott... both NOT high volume roads from the beltway (which is where a lot of people will be coming from). Lot 1 has primary arteries feeding in from 193 in both directions (4 lane road with fewer lights and pedestrians than Rt 1) and Adelphi (zero pedestrians, few lights). If we give people directions to come in from the beltway via 193, not Rt 1, campus police will love us.

We could also create situations in which there is no (or at least mitigated) impact to the rest of campus (people from 193 would like to get to north or south campus): there are ways to close certain parts of roads and exits to maintain at least 3 entrances to the show, but still retain full campus traversal for any vehicle. That's impossible with 9/11, as not only do we end up shutting down the main entrance on campus drive, but also another large one at Paint Branch (which terminates to a single lane road), and spill over ends up clogging up the center of campus. I spent 3-4 years at Shuttle-UM, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the flow of traffic on-campus.

Late edit - the importance of entrances isn't simply "different ways people can get in", there's a lso a traffic flow rate for every entrance. If you triple your entrances even on the same road (and simply have one person upstream on the one lane you've blocked off for the CPT meet on campus drive assigning entrances to entrants just with quick hand gestures), you can triple entrance speed. similarly, with that circle, you can create a single direction system where entrants come in the first two exits, and then leave out the circle in either the direction of campus drive or mowatt lane (with another exit at the CSPAC circle, but no entrance) in a way that it doesn't reintroduce that same traffic into already-congested areas.

Hell, even better, the clubs who arrange to come early or together can come in a separate designated entrance (UMUC off 193?), keeping them set to a certain lot and keeping them out of the general crowds of other, less-organized entrants - you can assign them to an entrance that has a lower flow rate or more difficult path, as they will be there early pre-congestion, or know where they're going. That can alleviate a large amount of traffic right there.

Last edit, I swear - another great benefit of using Lot 1: the president's residence looks right over Lot 1. If he's around, what better club publicity than to have the university president look out and see a massive event for charity going on that his university has put together?

[sunburn]

Originally Posted by 96850_R

Lot 1 has 3 main entrances. Campus drive from adelphi, campus drive from route 1 and from 193 through the Preforming Arts Center. If we did that we essential block off every road into campus. I can see that being a huge saftey issue. Not to mention if we already have noise complaints what will traffic going right by the denton community do? Adelphi already backs up on saturday, rush hour, ect add an extra thousand cars your asking for trouble.

Right now lots 11/9 have two quick ways to enter and exit campus. Lot 1 has 1 maybe two as well. I'd love to get lot 1 but i see traffic becoming worse if we did that.

Sorry, these arguments make no sense.

Three entrances are obviously much better than two. Have you seen the lines that we create every year? I've been in the traffic that was backed up all the way to 193 from lot 9/11. We also back up all the way down Paint Branch to the rt 1 entrance. Telling people to arrive starting at 10 would alleviate lots of issues because a bunch of people will come early, but not everyone. This will prevent huge backups around noon.

How is it a safety issue that we make traffic on main roads into campus? If a fire truck needs to get by, there are two lanes, they are allowed to drive on the wrong side of the road.

I doubt a bunch of cars is really going to create enough noise to warrant complaints from Dorms. Like I said before, we can let people in, just don't let the DJ start until noon. Cars aren't that loud when they are idling or moving under 5 mph. Someone wants to do a burnout or act stupid and we tell them to leave or get the cops to.



Oh, and the suggestion of a water mister is not gonna happen. People spend hours cleaning their cars for meets and if you are spraying water everywhere, they are gonna be pissed. I would be. You guys will just have to buy A LOT more water. Make sure you don't run out, that's not acceptible at an event this big, especially if it's 80+ degrees out. In fact, if it gets really hot towards the middle of the day, just start giving the water away to make people happy (1 per person though).

[advanwrx]

Lot 1 has a ton of entrances

1. the stadium road

2. Road between regents/rear side of smith student union

3. Campus drive

4. The road between the theatre/the school of architecture (that ends on the circle)

5. The road that comes from Rt.1 intersect w p
Platos and the Exxon and passes by the Commons (again ends in the circle)

6. The road that comes off rt 193

7. The road that comes off UMUC into the rear lot 1 (1d&e I think)

[96850_R]

Notice i said 3 main entrances. Sure you can come down campus drive from adelphi/193 and turn at UMUC, Before the circle and at the circle, but lot 9 has more than one entrance off of paint branch, yet I've only seen one or two used when the meet occurs. I'd love to get lot 1 just because of more space but i dont see it helping traffic any bit. I live off campus and take adelphi to 193 everyday. Saturdays are the worst from 11-7 it crawls through that intersection.

I suggested the water mist idea because the other huge complaint besides traffic is the heat. We dont allow tents for obvious reasons. But you could easily set up the mist away from cars. Lot 9 has open feilds around it, put it by the dyno, It shouldn't be hard to figure out which way the wind is blowing and set it up down wind. Hell put it next to my car its flat black i wont wash it for the show anyways, and its not like it gets water spots.

Getting more water with the same long lines isnt going to solve much.

[advanwrx]

No you're right technically since #4-5 and #6-7 feed to the same point (it's more than 3 main entrances tho as #1-2 have different entrance points) BUT

•*Paint Branch is one single road despite having two entrances to Lot 9&11... and it gets backed up

•*Lot 1 in some places might have 3-5 "main" entrances but it has 2+ roads that feed into each entrance (the seven examples).

So while we only have the manpower to staff the main entrances, at least the volume of cars will be spread across multiple roads instead of creating a clusterf#$! on a single road like Paintbranch

[madDOC]

Originally Posted by Driverman5777

If we have the meet take up that much of campus it is very likely that it will not be allowed to happen in the future

Get campus to fully sponsor it? Sporting events put CP at a standstill way worse than this meet

AYE....too much we can't do and not enough lets try it....

If WE (the founding alumni) had this kind of attitude that I am seeing in this thread, then we would have NEVER started a car club on campus, hosted a meet, got more recognition than any other university on the East coast for hosting a car meet and then given the club to you in the fashion that you have it. Put some goddamn effort in to this!

[Driverman5777]

Originally Posted by advanwrx

Lot 1 has a ton of entrances

1. the stadium road

2. Road between regents/rear side of smith student union

3. Campus drive

4. The road between the theatre/the school of architecture (that ends on the circle)

5. The road that comes from Rt.1 intersect w p
Platos and the Exxon and passes by the Commons (again ends in the circle)

6. The road that comes off rt 193

7. The road that comes off UMUC into the rear lot 1 (1d&e I think)

The point I'm making is not whether or not there are more entrances because there undoubtedly are... but with that amount of entrances on that many more roads, there are still going to be long lines, and now instead of clogging just 1 or 2 roads it clogs 5 or 6... much bigger impact on the city.

[advanwrx]

Yeah but none of them are major arteries that people travel on...

Maybe campus drive is an artery... but by having other roads you're decreasing the overall volume of cars and stress on that main artery road. And it has opportunities for cars not in the meet to turn off and go some other way whereas Paint branch doesn't (if you get in line you're stuck unless you make a u-turn)

Paint branch road is a huge artery... and there are no other roads to alleviate the stress... and we take both lanes of traffic in both directions too, not just one way as would be the case with campus drive.

[CAJ]

Never hurts to ask - this thing has gotten a lot bigger than we expected from day one. If it's "too late" this time around, then next year's officer corps should get started on a proposal in the Fall semester. There's a ton of ammunition on our side, and DA's defenses won't really hold water if we're planning this event on a day when nothing happens on campus anyway.

An hour or two to get in and park, and another hour for food and water are generally the biggest complaints. We can't do anything about the heat (please don't rain this year), but there are opportunities to mitigate the impact of traffic density.

[sunburn]

Sooooo, are all you guys just sitting around arguing with us on the forum, or are people actually doing stuff to plan for the meet?

Find time to meet up with Keith and/or John. I'd say take whatever help you can get, especially from guys who have done this like 4-5 times before.